Producers Forum "paypal" |
hi guys not meaning to wind anyone up but i have just been reading a few things about good old paypal
i just wondered weather to be concerned by this or what the links of what i am seeing are here
again not meaning to upset anyone
"Just wanted to warn all adult/fetish producers and models about Paypal:
Paypal is in heavy auditing mode right now!! I just had TWO accounts deleted by them for suspicion of adult activity--on one of these accounts, I wasn't even taking payments for adult content!! I was only selling my fetish model manual, but those fuckers don't care.
I know a dominatrix who also didn't take payments for adult activities on her paypal but had it shut down by the very fact that they didn't like what she does for a living.
Fucking Paypal sucks and I wish everyone would boycott them, but for now..adult producers and models, I HIGHLY recommend that you withdraw your Paypal money from your account now! Put it in your bank ASAP, before they close you down cuz..
If they close you down, they can keep your money for 180 days according to their TOS, and they can choose to only return a portion of it back to you!!! I've heard way too many stories of people losing THOUSANDS because of these assholes.
I am sticking with using my cc processor for everything, as I heard AlertPay no longer allows adult, either!!"
also i found this site
http://www.paypalwarning.com/
hope i can get some clarification on this
i just wondered weather to be concerned by this or what the links of what i am seeing are here
again not meaning to upset anyone
"Just wanted to warn all adult/fetish producers and models about Paypal:
Paypal is in heavy auditing mode right now!! I just had TWO accounts deleted by them for suspicion of adult activity--on one of these accounts, I wasn't even taking payments for adult content!! I was only selling my fetish model manual, but those fuckers don't care.
I know a dominatrix who also didn't take payments for adult activities on her paypal but had it shut down by the very fact that they didn't like what she does for a living.
Fucking Paypal sucks and I wish everyone would boycott them, but for now..adult producers and models, I HIGHLY recommend that you withdraw your Paypal money from your account now! Put it in your bank ASAP, before they close you down cuz..
If they close you down, they can keep your money for 180 days according to their TOS, and they can choose to only return a portion of it back to you!!! I've heard way too many stories of people losing THOUSANDS because of these assholes.
I am sticking with using my cc processor for everything, as I heard AlertPay no longer allows adult, either!!"
also i found this site
http://www.paypalwarning.com/
hope i can get some clarification on this
custom and messy sessions available messymadams@hotmail.co.uk
Messmaster will be able to give you a more definitive answer but as far as I understand it the billing agent for the umd is actually Epoch ie when someone puts in their credit card details and buys clips off the umd store the money goes through their system and a payout is made to Messmaster. He then uses his paypal account to distribute the funds to each store owner. Because no adult content is being actually bought through paypal their TOS aren't broken. I'm pretty sure he checked this with them before setting up the system.
Its well known that paypal DO NOT accept any adult sites (havent done for years) or we would all be using them. They are after all the easiest option!
And YES they can, will and do close your account without any warning and keep your money.
Answer - dont use them or if you really want to take the risk ensure you only keep a minimal amount in the account.
As for Alertpay, yup, after years of promoting themselves to the adult industry, they too have stopped serving it.
Welcome to the adult producers payment processor merry go round lol
ps: re paypal from MM/UMD... bonsun bob is correct... that is the theory, but I wouldnt be surprised to discover they changed the rules on us at some stage.
And YES they can, will and do close your account without any warning and keep your money.
Answer - dont use them or if you really want to take the risk ensure you only keep a minimal amount in the account.
As for Alertpay, yup, after years of promoting themselves to the adult industry, they too have stopped serving it.
Welcome to the adult producers payment processor merry go round lol
ps: re paypal from MM/UMD... bonsun bob is correct... that is the theory, but I wouldnt be surprised to discover they changed the rules on us at some stage.
Resistance is futile!
My understanding of the situation:
You cannot use PayPal as the billing processor for any kind of adult business. Basically if a website takes PayPal payments, it cannot sell adult material, products, or supplies.
The reasons for this aren't actually to do with censorship or PayPal being prudes, rather it's that the adult industry has a much higher level of fraudulant activity than mainstream business, people trying to break into sites, using stolen cards to pay for content (with the ensuing chargebacks when the card's true owner spots the transactions or reports the card stolen), people using their own cards but then reporting them stolen in order to chargeback the transaction and get the content for free, etc.
All this causes a massive administrative load on any payment processor that does handle adult billing, which is why the market has divided into mainstream processors like PayPal who ban adult material, and specialists like CCBill who focus completely on the adult market, and charge much higher transaction fees to cover the much higher costs they run into in handling and managing the fraud risks.
In the case of the UMD's download stores, Epoch is the processor handling the adult billing processes. They take the fraud risk, charge the high transaction fees to cover it, and only release the money to MM once they've cleared the transactions and received payment from the buyers' banks.
MM then uses PayPal to pay the store owners their revenue, after deducting the UMD's management fee. So the PayPal section of the money flow is entirely risk free, it's just MM sending payments to business associates (us lot!), after Epoch have taken care of the actual billing and security stuff. It's the modern equivalent of a business sending payment cheques to its suppliers.
From what I remember of the threads when the UMD changed from AlertPay to PayPal, MM checked with PayPal and they said this usage was perfectly fine, it's just sending money from person to person, no risks, or adult billing, involved.
You cannot use PayPal as the billing processor for any kind of adult business. Basically if a website takes PayPal payments, it cannot sell adult material, products, or supplies.
The reasons for this aren't actually to do with censorship or PayPal being prudes, rather it's that the adult industry has a much higher level of fraudulant activity than mainstream business, people trying to break into sites, using stolen cards to pay for content (with the ensuing chargebacks when the card's true owner spots the transactions or reports the card stolen), people using their own cards but then reporting them stolen in order to chargeback the transaction and get the content for free, etc.
All this causes a massive administrative load on any payment processor that does handle adult billing, which is why the market has divided into mainstream processors like PayPal who ban adult material, and specialists like CCBill who focus completely on the adult market, and charge much higher transaction fees to cover the much higher costs they run into in handling and managing the fraud risks.
In the case of the UMD's download stores, Epoch is the processor handling the adult billing processes. They take the fraud risk, charge the high transaction fees to cover it, and only release the money to MM once they've cleared the transactions and received payment from the buyers' banks.
MM then uses PayPal to pay the store owners their revenue, after deducting the UMD's management fee. So the PayPal section of the money flow is entirely risk free, it's just MM sending payments to business associates (us lot!), after Epoch have taken care of the actual billing and security stuff. It's the modern equivalent of a business sending payment cheques to its suppliers.
From what I remember of the threads when the UMD changed from AlertPay to PayPal, MM checked with PayPal and they said this usage was perfectly fine, it's just sending money from person to person, no risks, or adult billing, involved.
Saturation Hall - gungemaster.com - Forth! The Gungemaidens!
I can tell you, without reservation, that obeying PayPal's TOS is not a guarantee that your account won't be terminated.
I'm not sure, but I don't think the backlash against adult businesses is entirely an issue of chargebacks. If that were true, I doubt PP would close accounts that had never had a single chargeback ... like mine.
What I do believe is happening, is that all of the banks are adjusting their stance in preparation for when the conservatives take over Washington DC in November 2012. If the religious right decides to go after pornography, they'll start with the big targets. That means the payment processors will be near the top of the list.
I'm not sure, but I don't think the backlash against adult businesses is entirely an issue of chargebacks. If that were true, I doubt PP would close accounts that had never had a single chargeback ... like mine.
What I do believe is happening, is that all of the banks are adjusting their stance in preparation for when the conservatives take over Washington DC in November 2012. If the religious right decides to go after pornography, they'll start with the big targets. That means the payment processors will be near the top of the list.
The mud-bondage guy
Bob is right. Before setting this all up, I was on the phone with Paypal a lot. They actually know that this is a website that sells adult digital downloads, and that they are not doing any processing for it. They only transfer bank funds after the sale because Epoch does the actual billing. Paypal is no stranger to this type of scenario, and it's within their terms of use since I'm not doing the processing with them (
I don't even have credit cards turned on with them).
I have to be honest though that I do agree with MissT. These companies can change around their terms of use at any time. It's just our industry. I keep my eyes peeled, and I'm sure we can handle anything they throw at us.
Messmaster
I don't even have credit cards turned on with them).
I have to be honest though that I do agree with MissT. These companies can change around their terms of use at any time. It's just our industry. I keep my eyes peeled, and I'm sure we can handle anything they throw at us.
Messmaster
Stay messy, my friends.
DungeonMasterOne said: My understanding of the situation:
You cannot use PayPal as the billing processor for any kind of adult business. Basically if a website takes PayPal payments, it cannot sell adult material, products, or supplies.
The reasons for this aren't actually to do with censorship or PayPal being prudes, rather it's that the adult industry has a much higher level of fraudulant activity than mainstream business, people trying to break into sites, using stolen cards to pay for content (with the ensuing chargebacks when the card's true owner spots the transactions or reports the card stolen), people using their own cards but then reporting them stolen in order to chargeback the transaction and get the content for free, etc.
All this causes a massive administrative load on any payment processor that does handle adult billing, which is why the market has divided into mainstream processors like PayPal who ban adult material, and specialists like CCBill who focus completely on the adult market, and charge much higher transaction fees to cover the much higher costs they run into in handling and managing the fraud risks.
In the case of the UMD's download stores, Epoch is the processor handling the adult billing processes. They take the fraud risk, charge the high transaction fees to cover it, and only release the money to MM once they've cleared the transactions and received payment from the buyers' banks.
MM then uses PayPal to pay the store owners their revenue, after deducting the UMD's management fee. So the PayPal section of the money flow is entirely risk free, it's just MM sending payments to business associates (us lot!), after Epoch have taken care of the actual billing and security stuff. It's the modern equivalent of a business sending payment cheques to its suppliers.
From what I remember of the threads when the UMD changed from AlertPay to PayPal, MM checked with PayPal and they said this usage was perfectly fine, it's just sending money from person to person, no risks, or adult billing, involved.
You cannot use PayPal as the billing processor for any kind of adult business. Basically if a website takes PayPal payments, it cannot sell adult material, products, or supplies.
The reasons for this aren't actually to do with censorship or PayPal being prudes, rather it's that the adult industry has a much higher level of fraudulant activity than mainstream business, people trying to break into sites, using stolen cards to pay for content (with the ensuing chargebacks when the card's true owner spots the transactions or reports the card stolen), people using their own cards but then reporting them stolen in order to chargeback the transaction and get the content for free, etc.
All this causes a massive administrative load on any payment processor that does handle adult billing, which is why the market has divided into mainstream processors like PayPal who ban adult material, and specialists like CCBill who focus completely on the adult market, and charge much higher transaction fees to cover the much higher costs they run into in handling and managing the fraud risks.
In the case of the UMD's download stores, Epoch is the processor handling the adult billing processes. They take the fraud risk, charge the high transaction fees to cover it, and only release the money to MM once they've cleared the transactions and received payment from the buyers' banks.
MM then uses PayPal to pay the store owners their revenue, after deducting the UMD's management fee. So the PayPal section of the money flow is entirely risk free, it's just MM sending payments to business associates (us lot!), after Epoch have taken care of the actual billing and security stuff. It's the modern equivalent of a business sending payment cheques to its suppliers.
From what I remember of the threads when the UMD changed from AlertPay to PayPal, MM checked with PayPal and they said this usage was perfectly fine, it's just sending money from person to person, no risks, or adult billing, involved.
I replied before I read this. Man, I just should have quoted you and said... yeah. LOL I wish I'd typed that myself, as it's right on the money!
Thanks,
MM
Stay messy, my friends.
WooHoo the UK is going to make a fortune when the Conservatives take over the US, you are all welcome to come and live here, just not with me, well just not the ugly ones, the blokes can find their own accomodation and the pretty ones can live with me 
, lol
, lolThink! Do you need UMD more than UMD needs you? Remember be respectful, put opinions politely and never resort to insults.
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