Hi
As not all of us are fortunate enough to be able to afford expensive editing programmes or even equipment I thought I'd start a thread on finding stuff either free or cheap.
So here is my first free tool for the list
http://www.dvdvideosoft.com/
This is a cool little app that lets you change formats including creating flash. It's not the most advanced tool in the world but for free it is great. I suggest downloading the studio version with all the tools rather than individual componants
cheers Jonn
As not all of us are fortunate enough to be able to afford expensive editing programmes or even equipment I thought I'd start a thread on finding stuff either free or cheap.
So here is my first free tool for the list
http://www.dvdvideosoft.com/
This is a cool little app that lets you change formats including creating flash. It's not the most advanced tool in the world but for free it is great. I suggest downloading the studio version with all the tools rather than individual componants
cheers Jonn
Great idea, Yamtree. I'm more familiar with the open source tools for Linux than I am for tools for Windoze, but I did write a chroma-key plug-in for a tool called "Wax" that was a basic video editor with a very simple plug-in format that made it easy to extend.
The mud-bondage guy
Just a followup to my previous post regarding Wax. It has some interesting plug-ins, and you can also get my chroma-key (green screen) plug-in for it!
The software is written and distributed on-line from http://www.DebugMode.com/ and you can find Wax on their site at http://www.DebugMode.com/wax/ ... I've used the software ... it's not bad for editing and effects.
The software is written and distributed on-line from http://www.DebugMode.com/ and you can find Wax on their site at http://www.DebugMode.com/wax/ ... I've used the software ... it's not bad for editing and effects.
The mud-bondage guy
Cheers Doug. What do you think we could do to a WAM clip with Chroma keying? An interesting thought.
Cheers, Jonn
Cheers, Jonn
I once experimented with a green screen behind my backyard mudpit and I was pretty happy with what I was eventually able to create from it. The trouble was that it took too many steps for keying, matting, and feathering to get it to blend with the surroundings I used to replace the green screen background.
I also did one using a difference matte that would have been better with a green screen, but I had shot it without thinking of background replacement. That one came out pretty good.
So, with some planning, I think you could make a mud scene look like it was in exotic surroundings. Maybe you could add a large lizard or snake from which the model was running when she got mired down in the "tar pit". The only real trouble is that it would be just about impossible to make it look perfect. The audience would have to be somewhat forgiving. Then again, I have an eye for detecting when elements don't belong in a scene (variations in focus, depth of field, shadows, contrast, white balance, etc.). Maybe general audiences would not be as distracted by the subtle anomalies.
One thing that is pretty easy to do is to add elements to the real background by getting a background plate, then adding the green screen and actually putting back the original background in post, so you can insert a new element between the foreground and background (e.g. a large python on an overhanging tree limb). When you put back the original background, it's nearly impossible, if not impossible to tell that you keyed it out and put it back. The catch is that the camera must stay locked down during that shot so the background plate goes back in perfectly.
I've done tutorials on how to do this stuff, since I sell software for this purpose. I guess my next green screen tutorial will have to be a mud/quicksand scene.
I also did one using a difference matte that would have been better with a green screen, but I had shot it without thinking of background replacement. That one came out pretty good.
So, with some planning, I think you could make a mud scene look like it was in exotic surroundings. Maybe you could add a large lizard or snake from which the model was running when she got mired down in the "tar pit". The only real trouble is that it would be just about impossible to make it look perfect. The audience would have to be somewhat forgiving. Then again, I have an eye for detecting when elements don't belong in a scene (variations in focus, depth of field, shadows, contrast, white balance, etc.). Maybe general audiences would not be as distracted by the subtle anomalies.
One thing that is pretty easy to do is to add elements to the real background by getting a background plate, then adding the green screen and actually putting back the original background in post, so you can insert a new element between the foreground and background (e.g. a large python on an overhanging tree limb). When you put back the original background, it's nearly impossible, if not impossible to tell that you keyed it out and put it back. The catch is that the camera must stay locked down during that shot so the background plate goes back in perfectly.
I've done tutorials on how to do this stuff, since I sell software for this purpose. I guess my next green screen tutorial will have to be a mud/quicksand scene.
The mud-bondage guy
I have always used the free Windows Media Encoder to generate WMVs rather than a plugin in my editor. I started in the P3 days and it would often take 8-12 hours to render a 10-minute clip, so I would do my editing in Vegas and render back out to DV, then use a networked machine running WME to do the final render to a .wmv so I could keep editing on the main machine. I would often edit several clips to DV in the evening and then render WMVs on 3-4 networked machines at once, usually overnight.
These days, I have quad-cores and they can spit out WMV pretty much in real-time even with an editor plugin, but I still use the free stand-alone WME, mainly because it exposes more settings than you can access in a plug-in, so you have a lot more control over quality and file size.
I also still use Vegas for all my editing. I've tried pretty much every other low-end and high-end editor ever built and they all have crappy workflow in comparison. Even the very high-end AVID is slow and clunky by comparison. Final Cut just makes me want to punch Steve Jobs in the face. Sony now makes a "budget" version of Vegas to compete with the likes of Premier. I think it's under $100. I'd rather eat ramen for a month to pay for it than be forced to use Movie Maker or iMovie.
These days, I have quad-cores and they can spit out WMV pretty much in real-time even with an editor plugin, but I still use the free stand-alone WME, mainly because it exposes more settings than you can access in a plug-in, so you have a lot more control over quality and file size.
I also still use Vegas for all my editing. I've tried pretty much every other low-end and high-end editor ever built and they all have crappy workflow in comparison. Even the very high-end AVID is slow and clunky by comparison. Final Cut just makes me want to punch Steve Jobs in the face. Sony now makes a "budget" version of Vegas to compete with the likes of Premier. I think it's under $100. I'd rather eat ramen for a month to pay for it than be forced to use Movie Maker or iMovie.
--- TheWAMstore --- A WAM Video Supermarket - 26,000 Titles
Speaking of compression, I have several friends who use "HandBrake" for video transcoding (compression). It is open source, GPL'd software that can be run on Windoze, Linux, and Mac OS X. Find it here: http://handbrake.fr/
The mud-bondage guy
If anyone is interested you can download the free windows tool "Windows Media Profile Editor" and create your own custom output file settings for Windows movie maker. I created one with a 4 kps vid standard and 444kps Audio when I want to create an audio output of a clip in high quality without haveing to wait for a huge high quality wmv file to be made
I don't understand why people are still encoding in WMV?
It doesn't cross platforms with any elegance, it doesn't cross into mobile at all, it's clunky and entirely proprietary.
Unfortunately free generally equals restrictive and shit. Only a few things stand out... Patricks suggestion for the Windows Media Encoder is actually (I begrudgingly say) really good - real granular control... but WMV.
Handbrake is fantastic and pretty granular if you need it and really good presets and works is modern industry and web standard formats.
For editing though... no such thing as a good free editor. iMovie can be made to dance using Quicktime 7 Pro, and unless you are using Patricks kind of high end set up and need to use MS specific software for business... Windows is a waste of time and energy.
Unfortunately Apple are seemingly dropping the ball with iMovie, the next update will probably make or break if I ever use it again, I generally use it for simpler stuff while I learn Final Cut Pro... which I respectfully disagree with Patrick about. It's pretty awesome.
Premier is a waste of time and $$$ and I would rather smear Marmite in my eyes than use Windows Movie Maker... I think we can all agree with that last one.
Seeing WMM transitions and titles make me want to cry more than seeing Comic Sans on a website.
It doesn't cross platforms with any elegance, it doesn't cross into mobile at all, it's clunky and entirely proprietary.
Unfortunately free generally equals restrictive and shit. Only a few things stand out... Patricks suggestion for the Windows Media Encoder is actually (I begrudgingly say) really good - real granular control... but WMV.
Handbrake is fantastic and pretty granular if you need it and really good presets and works is modern industry and web standard formats.
For editing though... no such thing as a good free editor. iMovie can be made to dance using Quicktime 7 Pro, and unless you are using Patricks kind of high end set up and need to use MS specific software for business... Windows is a waste of time and energy.
Unfortunately Apple are seemingly dropping the ball with iMovie, the next update will probably make or break if I ever use it again, I generally use it for simpler stuff while I learn Final Cut Pro... which I respectfully disagree with Patrick about. It's pretty awesome.
Premier is a waste of time and $$$ and I would rather smear Marmite in my eyes than use Windows Movie Maker... I think we can all agree with that last one.
Seeing WMM transitions and titles make me want to cry more than seeing Comic Sans on a website.
http://twitter.com/noise17
I have used iMovie to make some impressive stuff. I then moved to Final Cut Express, which I loved. I was kind of forced to upgrade to Final Cut Suite for professional reasons. There are things I love about Final Cut, and there are things I hate. Final Cut has some quality issues when doing advanced compositing, but otherwise the quality is awesome. I highly recommend Final Cut Express for the lay editor on OS X; it's a bargain for what it does.
But alas, this is off topic, since we're discussing free tools.
BTW: I use Comic Sans MS for all of my Mudlover.com movie titles. I think it's totally appropriate for muddy movies.
p.s. I dumped Windoze as an editing platform back when it was still a mixed 16/32 bit clusterfuck. I'm sure it's much more stable now, but I'm quite happy on OS X.
But alas, this is off topic, since we're discussing free tools.
BTW: I use Comic Sans MS for all of my Mudlover.com movie titles. I think it's totally appropriate for muddy movies.
p.s. I dumped Windoze as an editing platform back when it was still a mixed 16/32 bit clusterfuck. I'm sure it's much more stable now, but I'm quite happy on OS X.
The mud-bondage guy
I appreciate the comments here but I think it is getting away from the point. Unfortunately most of us here do not have the money to buy expensive programmes or even specific hardware and as most people have probably already made a commitment to a windows platform then I think it would be better to help them with what they have.
Concerning Window Movie maker I think perhaps you are being a bit harsh on it. It can do a strait cut plus a standard cross fade which should be sufficient for the majority of WAM film makers after all it is the quality of the footage that makes these movies not fancy effects. As for titles with WMM yes I can see your point Noise as they are often just stock out of the box titles and very similar but I'm afraid this is a lack of imagination or effort that leads to this rather than the programme. Again WMM can do standard titles formats as seen in Hollywood movies it just takes using a decent font and some thought, it also of course does scrolling credits too.
The majority of my training was in the music industry, producing studio and live stage but over the years I have got to work with a lot of video producers and film makers and they all agree that you should approach any project by knowing what you want and setting about achieving it rather than letting the programme you use or the tools you have lead you as they are just that tools the best work is created inside your head first and again as I said WMM can produce a movie to a very decent standard if you know what you want.
Concerning file formats I accept that it does only produce WMV which can be an issue but it is possible to convert formats. I know this is not as good as outputting the format first time but it is also not that bad.
To be honest I have never seen a WAM clip here or anywhere that I was appalled at the editing of, the filming, content and lack of interest, yes definitely
Cheers Jonn
Concerning Window Movie maker I think perhaps you are being a bit harsh on it. It can do a strait cut plus a standard cross fade which should be sufficient for the majority of WAM film makers after all it is the quality of the footage that makes these movies not fancy effects. As for titles with WMM yes I can see your point Noise as they are often just stock out of the box titles and very similar but I'm afraid this is a lack of imagination or effort that leads to this rather than the programme. Again WMM can do standard titles formats as seen in Hollywood movies it just takes using a decent font and some thought, it also of course does scrolling credits too.
The majority of my training was in the music industry, producing studio and live stage but over the years I have got to work with a lot of video producers and film makers and they all agree that you should approach any project by knowing what you want and setting about achieving it rather than letting the programme you use or the tools you have lead you as they are just that tools the best work is created inside your head first and again as I said WMM can produce a movie to a very decent standard if you know what you want.
Concerning file formats I accept that it does only produce WMV which can be an issue but it is possible to convert formats. I know this is not as good as outputting the format first time but it is also not that bad.
To be honest I have never seen a WAM clip here or anywhere that I was appalled at the editing of, the filming, content and lack of interest, yes definitely
Cheers Jonn
I know, I know, Jonn...
Regarding WAM clip editing; even cross fades should be avoided whenever possible. I try to use only cuts and I cross fade the audio between cuts. Visual cross fades tend to disintegrate when encoded at constant bit rates and they make file sizes larger at variable bit rates. Unless there is a good reason for a transitional effect or cross fade, I tend to advise against them. Audio cross fades really help smooth out the transition though.
I know some people spend a lot more time editing their clips than I do. I try to shoot for the edit and spend as little time editing as possible. Granted, I'm pretty proficient, but I probably spend less than 1 hour editing a 20 minute clip. The linear nature of mudding clips don't leave you a lot of options. People want to see the video, not my library of special effects and transitions.
The moral of my story is that even the simplest editing program would produce similar results. The biggest difference is going to be encoding quality ... not all encoders are created equal. I will say, though, that HandBrake has a great MP4 transcoder.
Regarding WAM clip editing; even cross fades should be avoided whenever possible. I try to use only cuts and I cross fade the audio between cuts. Visual cross fades tend to disintegrate when encoded at constant bit rates and they make file sizes larger at variable bit rates. Unless there is a good reason for a transitional effect or cross fade, I tend to advise against them. Audio cross fades really help smooth out the transition though.
I know some people spend a lot more time editing their clips than I do. I try to shoot for the edit and spend as little time editing as possible. Granted, I'm pretty proficient, but I probably spend less than 1 hour editing a 20 minute clip. The linear nature of mudding clips don't leave you a lot of options. People want to see the video, not my library of special effects and transitions.
The moral of my story is that even the simplest editing program would produce similar results. The biggest difference is going to be encoding quality ... not all encoders are created equal. I will say, though, that HandBrake has a great MP4 transcoder.
The mud-bondage guy
The reason I have used cross fade and I do tottaly agree with you is as a time lapse aid where the original footage is not up to a strait cut edit and I have to jump forwards. My general though is this
Strait cut moves position
Cross fade moves time
All other forms of cut have no place outside regional news reports, lol
Strait cut moves position
Cross fade moves time
All other forms of cut have no place outside regional news reports, lol
Yes, I failed to mention that there are times when a transition is required because you can't cut to a different angle or subject. I prefer page peels, though when the scene doesn't change and I have to edit something out or patch a camera cut. This of course is a matter of taste, but to me a page peel feels more like a time warp and it doesn't have that disturbing effect you can get in a cross fade when the subject moves just a little bit.
However, I've cut out many minutes of video in order to make a straight cut work ... jumping ahead to a wider or fully-zoomed shot.
But, like I noted previously, I try to shoot for the edit. When I know I'll have to cut something, I move the camera or zoom all the way in on something, etc. If I have to zoom in to focus, and I know the focusing shot is going to be ugly, I zoom all the way back so I can cut out the focus section and cut to the wide shot, which is generally followed by a slow, steady zoom back to proper framing. Sometimes its nice to throw in an establishing shot, anyway.
For all of these reasons, I think it's important that the director of photography does enough editing that he knows what the editor is going to need. When you're shooting a linear event, you have to be creative, and constantly aware of how it's going to cut together.
Knowledge is a free tool, so this post is on-topic! ;)
However, I've cut out many minutes of video in order to make a straight cut work ... jumping ahead to a wider or fully-zoomed shot.
But, like I noted previously, I try to shoot for the edit. When I know I'll have to cut something, I move the camera or zoom all the way in on something, etc. If I have to zoom in to focus, and I know the focusing shot is going to be ugly, I zoom all the way back so I can cut out the focus section and cut to the wide shot, which is generally followed by a slow, steady zoom back to proper framing. Sometimes its nice to throw in an establishing shot, anyway.
For all of these reasons, I think it's important that the director of photography does enough editing that he knows what the editor is going to need. When you're shooting a linear event, you have to be creative, and constantly aware of how it's going to cut together.
Knowledge is a free tool, so this post is on-topic! ;)
The mud-bondage guy
I forgot a couple
fade down to black, hold for a sec and fade up. I would say this is generally a scene change effect and done this way is more TV, documentary style usually done when changing from the end of one day the the start of the next.
alternately fade to black, and then strait cut back. usually a scene change also but I generally tend to think this one more cinematic.
fade down to black, hold for a sec and fade up. I would say this is generally a scene change effect and done this way is more TV, documentary style usually done when changing from the end of one day the the start of the next.
alternately fade to black, and then strait cut back. usually a scene change also but I generally tend to think this one more cinematic.
The reason WMV simply won't die is because MS screwed the pooch so badly with Vista that a majority of the world (myself included) refuses to go beyond Windows XP. Out of the box, XP only includes Windows Media Player, which only plays WMV, Mpeg1, and some "raw" formats like DV.
Personally, I only use WMP for testing. I use GOMplayer or VLC as my normal playback mechanism. Unfortunately, even installing a simple FREE program like these is far beyond the capabilities of quite a few of our customers. Many people simply refuse to install any aftermarket applications as a matter of principle. I am constantly astounded at the number of people who have no idea how to copy and paste a text string.
THAT'S why so many producers are still cranking out WMV. It's either that or spend all day answering customer service emails asking why they can't play other mpeg4 variants on a bone-stock XP installation.
BTW, VLC plays WMV perfectly and it's probably THE most cross-platform application ever created. Among people willing and able to install 3rd-party software, there are simply no platform issues for most currently-used video codecs or containers. (we just need a LOT more of those people
) VLC is currently available on WinCE mobile platforms and I've heard rumors that it works on jail-broken iPhones and a few other mobile OSes too. (no Android yet, but I'm sure it will happen eventually)
Personally, I only use WMP for testing. I use GOMplayer or VLC as my normal playback mechanism. Unfortunately, even installing a simple FREE program like these is far beyond the capabilities of quite a few of our customers. Many people simply refuse to install any aftermarket applications as a matter of principle. I am constantly astounded at the number of people who have no idea how to copy and paste a text string.
THAT'S why so many producers are still cranking out WMV. It's either that or spend all day answering customer service emails asking why they can't play other mpeg4 variants on a bone-stock XP installation.
BTW, VLC plays WMV perfectly and it's probably THE most cross-platform application ever created. Among people willing and able to install 3rd-party software, there are simply no platform issues for most currently-used video codecs or containers. (we just need a LOT more of those people
) VLC is currently available on WinCE mobile platforms and I've heard rumors that it works on jail-broken iPhones and a few other mobile OSes too. (no Android yet, but I'm sure it will happen eventually)--- TheWAMstore --- A WAM Video Supermarket - 26,000 Titles
soundguy said: The reason WMV simply won't die is because MS screwed the pooch so badly with Vista that a majority of the world (myself included) refuses to go beyond Windows XP.
I always have to argue the toss with you don't I? Please don't take it the wrong way... there are things I just plain won't argue about because you know your stuff and have good advice. I argue with respect.
I have to argue the second part of that statement. MS certainly screwed the pooch.. hard. I have the misfortune of my other half running Vista... I hate Windows, but it really is a dog by my perspective of their standards. I can't blame anyone for sticking with XP, I certainly would have rolled back.
However, the majority of computer users - and in particular when talking about Windows OS sales - are in new computers for the home - casual users far outweigh the people that truly use a system. FAR outweigh, and they don't care which version of Windows is on the new computer barring the small percentage that heard what a dog Vista was from the media or friends.
The rest I agree with to a point... people certainly don't like to or even realise there are alternatives to what comes in the box. The point I disagree on is WMV not dying... we as a society are now moving to watching media on just about everything BUT a computer, and WMV just does not cut it on an XBox, PS3, iPod, Android phone, iPhone, Blackberry, iPad, Android tablet, internet enabled TV, Apple TV... name your poison - whereas MP4 plays on everything.
Except XP - and I honestly don't get many people using XP on my sites that doesn't have iTunes or Quicktime installed.. and I have been well over six months on MP4 now.
And Soundguy... I am going to beat you to it - iTunes is a bloated, god awful piece of shit software - and I am talking about the Mac version - don't even get me started on the Windows version.... Quicktime is awesome on a Mac, but I'm betting it's windows counterpart is a bit shit as well.
http://twitter.com/noise17
soundguy said: The reason WMV simply won't die is because MS screwed the pooch so badly with Vista that a majority of the world (myself included) refuses to go beyond Windows XP. Out of the box, XP only includes Windows Media Player, which only plays WMV, Mpeg1, and some "raw" formats like DV.
Personally, I only use WMP for testing. I use GOMplayer or VLC as my normal playback mechanism. Unfortunately, even installing a simple FREE program like these is far beyond the capabilities of quite a few of our customers. Many people simply refuse to install any aftermarket applications as a matter of principle. I am constantly astounded at the number of people who have no idea how to copy and paste a text string.
THAT'S why so many producers are still cranking out WMV. It's either that or spend all day answering customer service emails asking why they can't play other mpeg4 variants on a bone-stock XP installation.
BTW, VLC plays WMV perfectly and it's probably THE most cross-platform application ever created. Among people willing and able to install 3rd-party software, there are simply no platform issues for most currently-used video codecs or containers. (we just need a LOT more of those people ) VLC is currently available on WinCE mobile platforms and I've heard rumors that it works on jail-broken iPhones and a few other mobile OSes too. (no Android yet, but I'm sure it will happen eventually)
Personally, I only use WMP for testing. I use GOMplayer or VLC as my normal playback mechanism. Unfortunately, even installing a simple FREE program like these is far beyond the capabilities of quite a few of our customers. Many people simply refuse to install any aftermarket applications as a matter of principle. I am constantly astounded at the number of people who have no idea how to copy and paste a text string.
THAT'S why so many producers are still cranking out WMV. It's either that or spend all day answering customer service emails asking why they can't play other mpeg4 variants on a bone-stock XP installation.
BTW, VLC plays WMV perfectly and it's probably THE most cross-platform application ever created. Among people willing and able to install 3rd-party software, there are simply no platform issues for most currently-used video codecs or containers. (we just need a LOT more of those people
) VLC is currently available on WinCE mobile platforms and I've heard rumors that it works on jail-broken iPhones and a few other mobile OSes too. (no Android yet, but I'm sure it will happen eventually)Here endeth the lesson on why WMV files will still be around for a considerable time. Some people seem to worry about the techside to much!!!! Though very nice of Yamtree to give us links to free software for editing.
regards
Andy and the team.
Simply the best - Always on a mission.
You will never see me using WMV, compared to mpeg 4 the files are huge and mpeg 4 has much better res. Low end editors don't support mpeg 4 so unfortunately WMV probably will be around for a while! Ye gods I hate Microsoft!
Phil
Phil
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