Hey,

Let's suppose that hypothetically I was going to set up a download store in the future. What are the pros/cons of the UMD download stores versus Vidown.

ps...my apologies to messmaster for asking opinions of a competitor on his forum

To the best of my knowledge, the UMD allows payment only with Visa, while Vidown allows payment with Visa, MasterCard or Discover. So, for people with a MasterCard (like me) the Vidown stores have been the only real option.

You aren't limited to those two options you know! I shopped around and found a more flexible option which is better suited to my budget and needs, and still automatically sends out download links, that I use for WTFdownloads.com

I still have a UMD store for exposure here, but couldn't bear to go with a Vidown store as they look like something from the 90s (and all look the same).

Look at something like Shopify or Big Cartel.

PS – if you're selling anything with explicit content then your options are more limited.

True, but another good option is clips4sale. I've gotten many videos (mainly underwater and wetlook) from that service and have always been very happy with it.

I believe one of the members here (Soundguy) runs or helps run things at vidown sites.

I don't think he and MM see each other as competitors. Then again, they might.

Of course he's my competitor by any objective account, and UMD is full of conflicts of interest. But I don't care Here are a couple of plusses and minuses so far as I honestly see it (holler at any wrong stuff).

- UMD takes 20% while Soundguy's Vidown system only takes 10%.
- UMD only accepts Visa right now, while Vidown takes all major cards.
- I believe Vidown charges for hosting or storage based on how many files you have on your store (correct me if I'm wrong). UMD doesn't charge anything or have any hard limits. You only get charged the percentage when you actually make a sale.
- Vidown is a mature system that has been around much larger and benefits from multiple backup processors on the backend; UMD only has AlertPay for now.
- UMD has weekly payouts, and pays electronically, but AlertPay takes a percentage transfer fee when you get paid. Vidown has no such transfer fee (I believe), and also allows you to receive physical checks... but only pays once a month.
- Vidown has a lower minimum purchase amount.
- There is no setup for your UMD store (every UMD member already has one).
- UMD's store is integrated into UMD, and users access purchases right from their profiles (and must use their normal username/pass to get it for added security).
- On UMD, free advertisements for your downloads are automatically circulated throughout UMD (170,000 pageviews per day). If you want more promotions, you can run promos of individual downloads or your entire store through the normal advertising system.
- I think Vidown actually lets you run ads for other sites on your Vidown store.
- Vidown allows actual customization of your store's color scheme and logo; UMD only allows logo changes.
- The Vidown system makes your store appear to be your own unique single site (an advantage in many producers' eyes). UMD's system promotes the community aspect a bit more, in one way by allowing and promoting cross-sales among producers via a "users also bought" type feature on the Checkout and My Purchases areas. Although producers do still get their own dedicated UMD store page, the searches, Top Sellers, Hottest Scenes, and normal listings are all integrated. It's been said that producers continue getting some sales long after the newness of their scenes has worn off, because of this.
- New vids automatically appear on What's New on UMD's system.
- UMD's front-end is much more modern, with rotating mouse-over images, large thumbnails, advanced searches; Vidown's system is just rock-solid old-skool badassery run by a guy who has a mastery of server management.
- UMD throws in some bells and whistles, such as the watermarker, automatic what's new submission, the automatic zip file creator, model roster integration, trailer hosting / TV integration and free advertisement, integrated / automatic email list subscriber notification of new downloads, flexible stats, run sales and promos (incl. buy x get 1), automatic download store site listings are maintained, the forum promo tool, embed your UMD store into your own site, bundling of videos and photos, etc.

You can read a bit more about UMD's system on http://umd.net/faq under the heading "Why use my UMD download store..." but in my opinion, there would really be no disadvantage to using multiple download stores at the same time, apart from the extra time it takes to do it. I think that concerns about cannibalism of sales by the higher-fee-rate platform have not been realized. I'm sure producers who have actually used both systems would be of more help!

Messmaster

It's an interesting dynamic when your "competitor" is also given carte blanche to run the community as he sees fit...

Well damn messmaster. I think that about covers it! Thanks for the summary.

Now to actually get the content.

Well I wouldn't quite call it "run the community" so much as moderate some aspects of this site. There are lots of aspects the mods don't have control over. But I still agree with the point. It's deliberately a different kind of market here. I believe that competition is good for everybody, and I welcome it and promote it.

MM's comparison is pretty much spot on and there's really no reason that a producer can't use every system on the net at the same time. I don't think any of us have an exclusivity requirement.

The reason Vidown stores "all look the same" is because ultimately, under the hood there's only one store mechanism, just like the UMD, C4S, Amazon, eBay, and virtually every other major retail system in the world. At Vidown, each producer has their own catalog front-end that they can customize with text, banners, colors & backgrounds, external ads, and to some extent, their own HTML tags. Most vendors are film-makers and hobbyists, not code jockeys or webmasters, so there isn't a tremendous amount of customization among the storefronts. The options are there, though.

We have multiple fee options. As mentioned, we offer a 10% rate plus monthly hosting fees based on the amount of disk space used. Bandwidth is unmetered. Large vendors also have the option to lease their own managed dedicated Mothership server here in our datacenter. Each "store" can have its own domain name or be a subdomain on one of our main properties. Each hosting space can have a unique webpage frontend created by the vendor or it can be simply redirected right to the catalog system.

We also have a flat-rate fee option like the other systems. Here's the current rates as I am aware of them:

C4S - 40%
Vidown - 30%
UMD - 20%

C4S has an enormous amount of "drive-by" traffic, so it can easily be a set & forget store.

UMD has a built-in forum & advertising system and is one of the major portals of the WAM community, if not the primary portal

Vidown and its vendors advertise on the UMD and have free optional listings on http://TheWamStore.com as well as http://vid-mart.com and its various sub-portal sites. Vendors can trade free sidebar ad links with other vendors in and out of the system to help enhance search engine placements. Vendors can create free manual download orders to use as comps or when they accept alternate forms of payment.

Vidown accepts Visa, MC, Discover thru our own bank-based merchant accounts and also has an in-house cash-oriented "eWallet" system at http://softokens.com that can be used like a credit card at Vidown storefronts. It's funded via money orders or your bank's BillPay option.

Vendors get paid on the 10th of each month via their choice of check(free), 2 kinds of direct-deposit (3-day = free, 1-day = $15), or wire transfer ($25 domestic, 35 foreign).

As you can see, there are a metric assload of options with Vidown, mainly because it has been evolving slowly and organically since 2003 with the advent of our TheWamStore DVD catalog and membership systems. The system just got a major overhaul last year, but in general we don't screw with what has worked well for over half a decade. We now own and operate our networking, power, and server systems colocated in various data centers around the world.

Vidown and TheMothership.net are now subsidiaries of Mothership Digital Inc, which means I get to print business cards that say CEO on them.

...which is nice.

Believe me, if I ran this place, I would be sitting on a golden throne on a Hawaiian beach and you would all be bringing me mud/slime/oil-covered wenches and blue umbrella drinks to appease my fearsome wrath.

Each of us mods may have our own spin on things, but the bottom line is that we only enforce the MessMaster book of Rules and Proper Forum Ettiquette. The most important rule in the book is essentially "don't be a dick". You'd think that would be fairly simple and straightforward, but a surprising number of people seem to be incapable of that simplest of human decencies, so some of us who have to deal with that idiocy have reputations as "assholes" and such. Whatever. I can take it. Did I mention that my business cards now say CEO?

Ok guys, I REALLY appreciate all this.

Anyone willing to share some anonymous stats about how much volume actually gets purchased in the download store? Something like "the top 20 videos last month had xxx downloads in aggregate. I've always wondered about stuff like that. I know that nobody is getting rich off of WAM. Well, maybe except Messygirl because her stuff rocks and I'm betting it has broader appeal that just wammers - esp the bj stuff.

As you are clearly interested in this you will probably have read every response in this thread, but just in case you missed it why dont you check out the following: http://umd.net/forums/most_downloaded_clip

Miss T - I totally missed that. Thanks for pointing it out. Very interesting stats.