So like upon discussing fetishism with fellow students and a few friends, it seems a lot of people think that this whole messy fetish is wasteful and a disgrace to the dependency of solving world hunger. At least that's some of the responses I would get when bringing this fetish thing up. (for discussion reasons only!) Seems as if some people think the use of food to be used by not consumption but for a thrill of sexual experience is a waste and that the use of perfectly fine clothing to be ruined is distasteful and should be donated as well. Which reminds me of the whole Trash the Dress fad that was so controversial. I know when I get married, I would love to do something like that!

So I was just wondering how the community feels about it? Do you ever feel guilty? When I tried it, I never even thought about it, and I don't think it bothers me any bit. If you work and you can afford the food, isn't it your choice on how you use it? Or do you think it's wrong that people who receive food benefits because they can't afford food for themselves, use it in such a manner? Not only that, but if you buy clothing, it's yours and you can do what you want with it. I have donated many clothes of my own over the years, but using them for such a matter has never crossed my mind till I discovered this place. So how do some of you feel about that as well?

I hope I am not going to be perceived as negative towards the fetish or anything. But I was just wondering on how you peoples feel about it.

I am SO glad to hear a fellow wammer take an interest in this.

Yes. I have thought long and hard about the consequences of this fetish. But, that is no different than me thinking long and hard about the consequences of any action.

This is one reason I stopped spending my money long ago on this fetish - until I can come up with alternatives.

I don't think the "food" used in sploshing would really be eaten by starving people in India & China, unless they like living on pudding.

However, you are certainly extremely wise to consider that possibility.
The chain of cause and effect - from the total sum of food produced in America & UK - to the food consumed elsewhere, is a little too blurry. But, you may have more facts about that connection than I do.

That's because I spend all my time thinking about what I KNOW to be a definite causal link between food consumption - for wam or food - and cruelty towards animals. That would be the dairy & meat industries. That is a simple zero-sum game: the fewer dairy products purchased implies the fewer chickens & cows raised in tiny crates.

Elsewhere (not the UMD) and for the past 20 years I have brought this issue up.
This is ALSO why I once sent Filthyrich a tub of vegan marshmallow fluff to use as a pie, to see how that would work out. He says it didn't. To me - that's just a challenge to experiment with creating new vegan foods - both to eat and for wam. Of course, I can't do it alone. So, I do not so much feel guilty as I do angry that others do not share your & my sensitivities to work on such technologies.

It's the same thing with ANY project that requires a collective human effort. If the majority of human effort (i.e. majority of humans) goes into STUPID or unnecessary activities (hint, hint - and I don't mean wam), then the rest of us are stuck, unable to get jobs in those unnecessary or stupid or destructive industries.

Hence, it's not really YOUR fault, so you ought to have nothing to feel guilty about.

Many people (wrongly) believe that it is the tough decisions that separate people's character. BULLshit. I don't blame people for the non-optimal decisions they make while under pressure - not just cops & soldiers but activists, especially. It's the EASY decisions (hint, hint - voting) that separate the good from the evil. So, if it turns out that all our wamming really IS causing starvation in country X, I don't blame you, since it was not very clear to begin with.
But, causing dairy animals to be confined for life - regardless of whether they are allowed to die of old age or not - that IS a clear consequence of wam.

There's no way to disconnect this issue from the larger socio-political environment.

You can't cure stupid.

I've heard this line of reasoning before for sure. The people that object on these grounds have something of a point, perhaps, but I would argue it's an awfully narrow-minded one. You could argue that instead of going on a ski trip or any other type of luxury vacation you should instead stay home and donate the money and time you would've spent on your vacation to helping the hungry and needy of the world. Or instead of buying a nice car or nice home, you should buy something much cheaper and more functional, and donate the money you saved to the poor. And so forth and so on. In short, any kind of money spent on anything that isn't absolutely necessary could in some sense be considered wasteful.

Also, with a lot of us, it's not like it's even nutritious foods we're "wasting" ... in my case it's pudding, cool whip, pie crusts, etc... i.e. pretty much junk food!

The whole thing is a lot more complex than most people realise.

First off, our whole global economy is based on consumption. If people ever did stop consuming on a large scale, entire national economies would crash, laying millions, perhaps billions, out of work and destitute. That's what sparked all that panic when the current recession started, because if it had gone from recession to depression, with prices actually falling, everyone would have stopped spending "because it'll be cheaper next week", which is fine from an individual POV but if everyone does it all the shops, and the factories which make the things the shops sell, all go spectacularly bankrupt.

So much as people might think it'd be great if we in developed countries shared more of what we have with poorer nations, the reality would be rather different - we'd destroy their economies.

Regarding food waste, given the vast amount of food that's just thrown away in developed countries each year, the small amount that gets used for wamming really isn't going to affect anything. It's not as if those cans of beans that someone bought to fill their girlfriend's prom dress with would get magically shipped to Africa if the wammer didn't buy them. Apparently the most-wasted food of all is yoghurt. Lots of people buy it planning to be "healthy" but then don't get round to actually eating it, chuck it out, then buy more the next time they visit the supermarket, only to throw that out a week later too!

Regarding clothes, here at Saturation Hall the vast majority of our girls' gunge outfits come from charity shops, we must have spent a small fortune over the last five years, so by buying and gunging them we're actually contributing to good causes. The only things we tend to buy brand new are the specialist workwear and uniform outfits, and those come from smaller companies which appreciate the extra business, whatever we actually do with the clothes.

Of course mud can be enjoyed guilt-free, it's natural, there's no shortage, and it's completely re-usable!

That's completely false. You fail (as every single economist in the universe) to separate the positive thing of us giving them food & resources (or money, but food & resources would be more useful) from any labor THEY do in return.

If we give THEM more food, that WILL benefit them.
It hurts them ONLY if we demand something in return.

According to your logic, if I pay Filthyrich for his videos, that is doing something positive for him, and therefore that would "destroy his economy".

The only thing thats keeping food away from poverty stricken countries are the warlords, dictators, and corrupt politicians that control the region they live in. It certainly isn't the guy that bought a few boxes of cake batter for a cheap thrill.

Theres plenty of food for everyone. Its not our fault that it isn't getting to the people who need it.

It seems that the general consensus is that the amount of food we "waste" wamming is a drop in the bucket to the food that goes to waste globally. And the fact of the matter is there is STILL enough food to feed everybody in the world. How you get food to starving people/nations is a discussion for the off-topic section but it's not like we're wasting a scarcity.

But just taking it from a national point of view (namely my nation, the United States). There's a lot of food going to waste in every local grocery store. Food that, once past a certain date, cannot legally be sold. I'm not saying that you should get messy with spoiled food (although I recall disclaimers on some of those old kids shows that said they only used food that was no longer edible) but just putting things in perspective. If you do feel guilty, maybe you could come to some kind of arrangement with your local grocer.

I never thought about the clothing aspect. I suppose clothes don't grow on trees, but I think (with no facts to back it up) it's easier to replace ruined clothes than spilled food.

IMHO, don't worry about it. If you really want to twist some logic, one could say that using food to WAM with is akin to hunting in order to curb overpopulation. But that's way out there. Try it on your friends, see if you blow their mind

That's my thing. That makes me feel so good ... and I can't imagine a Haitian earthquake survivor or one of the Calcutta railway children having much use for a pair of stiletto-heel thigh-length vinyl boots.

There isn't a smiley for polishing my halo.

Mike.

Yea I've seen this one before, even though I've yet to run into this argument in person. I haven't been open about my WAM fetish since highschool-and the most heat I got back then was being "fucked up."

But I say it's the furthest thing from waste. I only feel guilty when I literally throw food away. If it's not used for WAM, than it truly has been wasted.

I remember going to KFC once, and they gave someone the wrong order. They threw the entire thing away. I also recall my roommate throwing away ALL the food that Publix wouldn't sell for their day. Now those I consider wasteful. Could've made some fine lady stick all that food in her clothes..

+1. I would add global warming (i.e. draughts, dried up river sources, etc) and bad agrarian practices (clearing of rainforests to house grazing livestock) to that list.

Since I don't WAM with food, the waste of food isn't really an issue with me. Although if I did do food, I'm not sure how I'd get that food over to the hungry folks in another country anyway if I decided not to do food because somebody else needed to eat it.

Although, if the food was non-perishably canned, I guess one could argue that it can be donated to a local food shelf. But then, I don't do food, so, I don't wrestle with the question of wasting food.

My thing is mud, and, the deeper the better. So what gets ruined are clothes.

I will confess to having some difficulty trashing good clothes. Yes, there is a part of me that was taught not to waste. I am getting better, though...I'm trying to clean out my closets and get rid of things I'm not using, and I hope to take some items that honestly I'm not wearing ANYWAY, really and truly, it's been YEARS since I've worn them, what am I saving them for???...to a mudpit for a proper sendoff.

Sometimes I buy clothing specifically to wear it to a mudpit.

I never buy any mud clothing full price from a regular store. The thrift store that I buy the most items from supports several charities.

In fact, I buy a lot of non-mud clothes from this same store.

I am very cheap-minded when it comes to clothes. I totally don't care about fancy labels and I stopped caring about trends a long time ago.

I can feel good about being cheap, though, if I buy from this store.

Nessie

If you want to take a look at wasted food, check out the food mountains caused by subsidised farming across the U.S and Europe. Makes a couple of litres of vanilla pudding look like a proton in a sea of fucking elephants.

On a personal level, ask anyone that brings up wasting food if the have ever eaten from a fast food restaurant, then ask them if they could have prepared something fresh and healthy themselves and a WHOLE lot cheaper... then donated the money they saved to an organization that actively helps out in countries suffering from famine.

Have they gone out for a meal in a restaurant lately? Bought some coffee in Starbucks? Was that coffee free trade? Is their coffee at home free trade?

Also, take a look at their body shape... see a spare ounce of fat? If so, tell them to shut the fuck up.



If there is one thing that annoys the shit out of me is reactionary bullshit like this. It's a complete lack of rational thinking that causes the word "liberal" in the U.S to be used as an insult.

It's a bullshit argument on a fetish, and I will happily call it.



There is two things that helps people worse off in the world for whatever reasons... that's cold, harsh cash and TIME. Donating TIME to help people, donating MONEY to pay for the help people need. Not putting a whipped cream pie in your lovers face is not going to save a starving anyone.

Complete lack of rational thinking makes me want to puke.

Sorry, Doc, but we disagree on the long-term effects of pouring "aid" to underdeveloped countries. While on the surface it seems like it would help, take the example of donated clothes.

People living in "Brokeassistan" don't have much money. WHY do they not have enough money? Because not enough of them have jobs. So Goodwill/Oxfam/UNICEF/Feed-the-children/Whichever-government takes up all these donations of clothing and puts them in giant shipping crates, and off they go, to be distributed piecemeal in the nearest safe port city of Brokeassistan (lest their workers get robbed/kidnapped-for-ransom/shot venturing into the wrong warlord's pissing ground.) But regardless; the clothes get dumped into the country. So now nobody runs around naked and all the unicorns and sugar plums are dancing, right?

Wrong.

Because the guys who LIVE THERE, and who are trying to make a living to feed THEIR families (and maybe to create jobs for their neighbors in the process) who are in the business of SELLING clothing or MAKING clothing LOCALLY, get to watch their sales plummet. So they fire their employees, and other people who make their clothing lose their jobs as well.

Add to that the same effect on food, etc. businesses- including local farmers who now cannot sell their own products and then cannot afford to plant more crops next season, thereby increasing hunger in their country in the following years- and you create even MORE desperate people who now need a handout, thereby making them even more reliant on these charity industries (And don't kid yourself; these places are ran by large corporations that are staffed with people who ARE getting paid from the donations). So what do you do?

Well, for starters, you might want to consider creating opportunities for the good folks in Brokeassistan to try creating their own DOMESTIC industries and agriculture. For all the money spent on foodstuffs, etc. AND the cost of transporting it and handling it, that could go much further in helping them develop the means to create what they need there. Then, once they can meet their own domestic market's needs, perhaps they would even have enough to export to their neighbors, to generate revenue flowing into their economy. Give a man a can of fish, and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he can eat for the rest of his life- and in the process, he also gains his independence from being manipulated by the political agenda of those who run the handout programs.

Now granted, that does not address the issues of the local warlords. But the fact is that it is, in the end, up to THEM to decide if they want to fight for their freedom. It is NOT our place to "liberate" the world to remake it in some progressive socialist utopian wet-dream, where they are then "free" to "make better choices" that someone else makes for them. (And frankly, those running America's government at the moment need a reminder of that lesson before too long, or WE may well wind up the ones needing the handouts from Brokeassistan ourselves). But I digress...

The point is, that YOU should not allow these types of folks to try to manipulate you into feeling guilty for using something that YOU own, that YOU bought and paid for, because THEY seem to have the misguided belief that YOU and I and everyone else is beneath them, and should be forced to submit to THEIR ideology and CONTROL.

If you steal from ONE person, you are a thief. If you steal from EVERYONE, you are a politician. And if you tell yourself that you are taking it for their own good, you are a socialist/communist/fascist. That type of system in one form or another brought the entire world genocide and world wars over the last century; following the same path again (and from the same political dogmas) is not going to wind up any other way this time around, either. And it certainly is NOT going to help those who are in need, here or there. Not in any way that actually lasts past the moment that the cameras turn off, anyway.

So Angelface; don't let those folks give you too much crap about it. Next time it comes up, just point out that a certain percentage of the food was imported which gave the farmers in those countries a way to make a living, and the clothing that you destroy in the process also created jobs overseas in making it (and even more jobs in making its replacements) that helped the poor people to have jobs, to buy food to feed their own families with every day. And IF you still feel bad about the food wasted, then use food that is out of date for eating anyway, OR even better yet, just enjoy mud.

That's how I see it, anyway. Your mileage may vary, and we all have a right to our opinions, even if we may disagree. At least, we do so long as we don't let others who want to take away those rights succeed...

re: Wasting food.

Unless you were planning to take that pie, stick it in a FedEx box and mail it to Africa, not using it for WAM is not going to make a lick of difference to anybody except you (who has now been deprived of a WAM session).

I don't WAM with food, but if I did, it wouldn't be "wasted." It would be used for a purpose. Wasted food is the millions of pounds of the stuff tossed out every year that people elect to not eat. Hell, I work in a nursing home and the amount of food that is thrown out daily is shocking. That's waste. Purchasing a pie and using it however you feel is proper.

Very deep topic. It actually brought me out of my lurker status to post. I don't think the average person really cares one way or the other. I mean look at the youtube videos of messy wrestling. Those are just average people who probably dont know about WAM. They just see two hot chicks rolling around in a slippery substance. They aren't out there freaking out about a waste of food or water used to make that happen.
But there are people who get all uptight about this sort of thing. Do you remember when Family Challenge was on they had a disclaimer that all the food used in the show could not be eaten? Whether or not that was true they had to do that to keep the complainers off their back.
At the end of the day anything you do will be offensive to somebody, whether its WAM or eating meat. If they want to think they are better than you fine, let them. Just ignore them. WAM ON!

Hilarious.

There are maybe 5, 10 thousand “wammers” world wide? how much food do you think we all could possibly waste? I can guarantee if every single one of us stopped tomorrow, it would produce an incalculably negligible effect on world hunger.

Not to be rude to anyone who thinks different, but this is a small minded argument and has no logical merit.

Its akin to blaming that guy from "flipping out" for the global economic crisis.

My children waste more food!

Anyone who has worked in a restaurant or supermarket will have been witness to vast amounts of food being thrown away.

A lot of messy substances used in large quantity are things like mud, gunge and shaving foam. A few tins of beans, porridge oats, custard... It's a drop in the ocean in the scheme of things.

Jessie xxx
www.messy-jessie.co.uk

The answer to this is really very simply - NO! Here is why. Food is a nature resource and as that - a renewable resource. It is self renewing. And there is a constant cycle to it. Everywheres around you organic material is growing. If either plant or animal. We don't think of it as food because we ourself are not consuming it. But other things are. And even there the greater mounts of it are going to "waste" right before us. Stop and really think about it before reading on.
In developed nations around the world we have found and made for ourselves the means to take out of this abundance (with the highest health standards) what we need to live and then some. Many here in this post have already correctly pointed out if food is not eaten then it goes to waste any way - it goes back to the eco-cycle for renewal. And it was also correctly pointed out that if an area does not have the food supply it needs - it's because of it's political system. Yes - political systems. Here is why. Ask anyone who has studied anthropology seriously. War follows the plow. Advances in farming for one group lead to extra resources that out side groups would try to take by force.
Basically what this comes down to this, what is that person's thinking - do you think there is a limited amount of food to go around or is there an on going renewing supply (an Abundance). Limited amounts or availability. -- Are you trapped or are you free in your head?
If you need one more reason then try this: if you buy that dessert for XX amount of $$ to eat for the just for the pleasure of the few moments that bite will be in your mouth and then down to just go around your waist for years adding to over weight & bad health. Or you can buy that dessert for a bit less because taste is not a factor, and have some pleasure in an activity (we use different things for pleasure all the time) for maybe a bit longer. Which was the greater value to you with the better end result ?
So I say , and you all can quote me, - Better on your face than around your waist.

Now,..will someone please just give me that nice big guilt free cream pie ?

tldr: don't spend money on anything other than whats needed to survive because its denying resources to people in poor countries...

This is best described by a word that begins with R and ends with Sarah Palin demanding a public apology.